* * * JREF Forum Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Question about derailing (split from Kim Jong Il orders military to get ready...) Started at 27th May 2010 07:03 AM by Zach Aviv Visit at http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=176646 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Zach Aviv Date : 27th May 2010 07:03 AM Thread Title : Question about derailing (split from Kim Jong Il orders military to get ready...) Just report him for derailing. I am not derailing, I talk about North Korea. Yes I got warning for talking about North Korea in thread about North Korea. :confused: Seems this forum have different rules for different talk, I ask moderator about this to clarify. This make it difficult to post. Will I get warning for suggesting that America will not want war with North Korea? Note: Mark6 above is derailing AND off topic but get no warning . Why double standard? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Locknar Date : 28th May 2010 01:50 AM You were infracted for derailing the thread in question, trying to tie the situation wrt North Korea to "Jewish goals" (which is not the topic). WRT your other question, member history are among the items we consider in terms of moderating/infracting a post. Prior to this, you have had two other infractions for similar conduct (ie. attempting to derail threads wrt "Jewish goals") in the past 2 weeks. If you see a post you feel is in breach of a members Membership Agreement - report it. Specific to your most recent infraction, you are welcome to file an Appeal (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4489463#post4489463). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Zach Aviv Date : 28th May 2010 02:24 AM You were infracted for derailing the thread in question, trying to tie the situation wrt North Korea to "Jewish goals" (which is not the topic). WRT your other question, member history are among the items we consider in terms of moderating/infracting a post. Prior to this, you have had two other infractions for similar conduct (ie. attempting to derail threads wrt "Jewish goals") in the past 2 weeks. If you see a post you feel is in breach of a members Membership Agreement - report it. Specific to your most recent infraction, you are welcome to file an Appeal (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4489463#post4489463). If I feel Jewish goal is part of subject of thread then that is my honest view and not derail. Why am I moderated for this? Does forum not like talk of Jewish goals? Rules do not say talk of Jewish goals is forbidden. Please clarify, I do not want to break rules. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Locknar Date : 28th May 2010 03:14 AM From your Membership Agreement:This rule is intended to prevent discussions from being arbitrarily derailed, not to stifle thread drift, short asides, jokes, or similar things. If it appears that a poster often brings up a particular topic in threads in which it only has a tenuous, if any connection, that will be considered a breach. HILITE Added by Locknar If you feel the "Jewish goal" is related to the topic - then elaborate, explain why, etc. (when you mention the topic, not here); the burden of proof in terms of how they relate, how it is on topic is on you. Thus far, on 3 separate occasions, you have done just as I have highlighted above. You are, of course, welcome to start your own thread on North Korea and "Jewish goals"... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Piscivore Date : 28th May 2010 04:38 AM If I feel Jewish goal is part of subject of thread then that is my honest view and not derail. Why am I moderated for this? Does forum not like talk of Jewish goals? Rules do not say talk of Jewish goals is forbidden. Please clarify, I do not want to break rules. It's when a poster seems to feel "Jewish goal" (or any other "pet" issue) is part of the subject of every thread and tries to turn the conversations therein in that direction that it becomes a problem. "Jewish goal" is obviously part of the subject in relation to Middle East events. "Jewish goal" is not obviously part of the subject in relation to Korean pennisula events. A great deal of evidence is needed if one wishes to introduce it as a part of a thread with that subject. "Talk of Jewish goals" is not in itself forbidden. What is a violation of the rules is introducing the same subject- any subject- into many threads, the introduced subject's connection to which is not immediately apparent. Just on a personal note, I found in my own experience that whenever I percieved something to be "everywhere", it was most likely a perception error rather than a vast conspiricy or universal truth. You might consider that possibility. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Zach Aviv Date : 28th May 2010 07:03 AM From your Membership Agreement:If you feel the "Jewish goal" is related to the topic - then elaborate, explain why, etc. (when you mention the topic, not here); the burden of proof in terms of how they relate, how it is on topic is on you. Thus far, on 3 separate occasions, you have done just as I have highlighted above. You are, of course, welcome to start your own thread on North Korea and "Jewish goals"... So forum needs proof before allowing a viewpoint on topic? But I shall explain in more detail next time. I don't want to break rules. I shall appeal the moderation as suggested. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Zach Aviv Date : 28th May 2010 07:08 AM It's when a poster seems to feel "Jewish goal" (or any other "pet" issue) is part of the subject of every thread and tries to turn the conversations therein in that direction that it becomes a problem. I do not think "Jewish goal" is part of every thread and do not try to turn conservation to that. I just make comment when I feel it relevant. People do not have to reply. "Jewish goal" is obviously part of the subject in relation to Middle East events. "Jewish goal" is not obviously part of the subject in relation to Korean pennisula events. A great deal of evidence is needed if one wishes to introduce it as a part of a thread with that subject. Maybe I should have put more detail. Jewish Goal is in relation to control of Western military. So Western military not attack North Korea because it not part of Jewish Goal. But this not thread for this I know. "Talk of Jewish goals" is not in itself forbidden. What is a violation of the rules is introducing the same subject- any subject- into many threads, the introduced subject's connection to which is not immediately apparent. Just on a personal note, I found in my own experience that whenever I percieved something to be "everywhere", it was most likely a perception error rather than a vast conspiricy or universal truth. You might consider that possibility. I not understand your last sentence. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Piscivore Date : 28th May 2010 09:02 AM So forum needs proof before allowing a viewpoint on topic? But I shall explain in more detail next time. I don't want to break rules. I shall appeal the moderation as suggested. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, while more ordinary claims require ordinary evidence. Not a lot of evidence is required to propose Jewish control or influence over events in the Middle East. Extraordinary evidence is going to be required to support a claim of Jewish "control of Western military", especially in far East Asia where "their" interests are not so obvious and other factors keeping the "Western Military" from attacking are obvious. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : MG1962 Date : 28th May 2010 09:17 AM So forum needs proof before allowing a viewpoint on topic? But I shall explain in more detail next time. I don't want to break rules. I shall appeal the moderation as suggested. Thats pretty much how things role here. It makes this place interesting to visit. You may well be 100% right in a claim you make - no matter the topic. But you can bet someone will call you out as to how you know the particular fact -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : UncaYimmy Date : 28th May 2010 10:20 AM Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, while more ordinary claims require ordinary evidence. Not a lot of evidence is required to propose Jewish control or influence over events in the Middle East. Extraordianry evidence is going to be required to summort a claim of Jewish "control of Western military", especially in far East Asia where "their" interests are not so obvious and other factors keeping the "Western Military" from attacking are obvious. I stay out of politics, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that every asset devoted to one area is an asset that cannot be devoted to another area. If a country is dependent on assets deployed (or being available to be deployed) in their area, then it's not unreasonable that they would try to exert influence to prevent assets from being devoted elsewhere. Whether I'm right or wrong is not really the point when it comes to Rule 11. It's not "trolling" to be "wrong" about an issue. Rule 11 should prevent abrupt turns in a thread rather than prevent people from seeing connections where others may not. The burden shouldn't be for them to justify their posts so much as the mods should have the burden of demonstrating it really doesn't belong at all *and* causes a problem with the thread derailing. This kinda fits in with the trolling thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Piscivore Date : 28th May 2010 10:34 AM I stay out of politics, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that every asset devoted to one area is an asset that cannot be devoted to another area. If a country is dependent on assets deployed (or being available to be deployed) in their area, then it's not unreasonable that they would try to exert influence to prevent assets from being devoted elsewhere. I'm not sure what you are saying here. If it is that the US is overcommitted militarily and cannot get involved in a third conflict that would probably be much bigger than the other two combined and might even involve China again, I agree. Whether I'm right or wrong is not really the point when it comes to Rule 11. It's not "trolling" to be "wrong" about an issue. Rule 11 should prevent abrupt turns in a thread rather than prevent people from seeing connections where others may not. The burden shouldn't be for them to justify their posts so much as the mods should have the burden of demonstrating it really doesn't belong at all *and* causes a problem with the thread derailing. The correctness of a position not really what I'm getting at. The claim here is that the goals of Jews have some connection to Korea, and that's not something that's going to be immediately seen by many people. Evidence is needed to show it's not off topic to mention "Jewish goals" when discussing Korea. Trolling has nothing to do with it. This kinda fits in with the trolling thread.[/QUOTE] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Locknar Date : 28th May 2010 10:44 AM As this thread is not about trolling, and the OP has been addressed - thread closed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from JREF Forum (http://forums.randi.org) at 5th June 2010 04:09 PM.